Assemblywoman Fiona Ma: Nobody Would Enforce a Circumcision Ban

• Just replace "male" with "female" and see what kind of wrath comes down on the heads of any police, prosecutors, or judges who discard the law.  Actually, torture and mutilation are already against the law. Police, prosecutors, and judges just need to start doing their jobs. Males are people too.

• Faulty logic, that is like saying that maybe we should cut off everybody's tonsils or remove a girl's private parts because she won't get infection, the stupidy of the hiv argument is akin to soaking your mouth in filthy water and covering your lips and eating afterwards, sure it reduces your change of getting bacteria, but why have unprotected sex when it could happen. Would you use a condom that broke or drug that failed 10-20% of the time, incurable disease,no.

• this is something unrealistic bill

• Jana- The idea you need to consider is not if one kind of cutting is worse than another, it's if the human RIGHT to genital integrity is equal regardless of gender.  The question is not about competitive suffering... it's about universal human rights to be free from imposed genital cutting. There are some forms of FGM less invasive than typical male circumcision- yet those are also illegal in the USA.  Where do you draw the line on how much cutting is allowable... is the answer "any cutting is OK as long as it's not as damaging as the worst form of FGM"  ?  I think it's reasonable to extend protection to all minors and to let them decide for themselves how much of their genitals they would like to cut off when they are adults.  No one is trying to disrespect women who have been subjected to FGM.  Comparing the motivations of cultures determined to uplift a child into their society through genital cutting is reasonable, as the beliefs are often the same.   If you want to imagine a comparable surgery that could be done to women that would mimic the effect of male circumcision- it's actually the opposite of infibulation-  you would preserve the clitoris and remove the outer and inner labia so that the clitoris was always exposed and easy to see... this would keep the entire genital area cleaner (no smegma! yeah!) and avoid infections (because I have known so many women who have suffered from vaginal infection who had to be circumcised when they would remember it) and it would not take long for men to learn to prefer this look of an always exposed clitoris. Women would be proud to be circumcised and would be afraid that their uncircumcised daughter might get teased if her peers can't see her clitoris easily when she changes her clothes.  It would be an aesthetic and hygienic enhancement... and wouldn't cut any of the "important" part.. just the "extra" skin that is ugly and dirty. It would not be sexist subjugation because the intention is to make women more sexually appealing and grant then social status.  Circumcised women would laugh at the idea that the natural design of the vulva had any functional purpose and would theorise that all that extra skin must be a vestigial remnant from a time when humans didn't wear clothes and ran naked through thorn bushes. I know that sounds crazy... but that's exactly what gets said about male circumcision in the USA every day.

• It would make it a lot easy er to sue when it done with out permission In the 50s and 60s it was done with out asking the parents. My one of my older brothers was cut! Thankfully my   dad made sure that I was not I do not think any one  in their right mind would have un protected intercourse with some one that was infected circumcised or not

• Jana, I understand your argument. In my opinion one of the main differences between female genital cutting (FGC) and male genital cutting (MGC) is there are more types of FGC than types of MGC. Some forms of FGC, for example infibulation, are much worst than male circumcision and some forms of FGC, for example a small incision in a girl's genitals, are much less damaging than male circumcision. From my experience, people opposed to male circumcision compare it with the type of female genital cutting done in Indonesia and Malaysia, not with infibulation. Many supporters of male circumcision reject any comparison of male circumcision with any type of female genital cutting. They refuse to acknowledge that some forms of FGC are less damaging than male circumcision.

• Steve, I'm not sure you understood my argument. I am not a proponent of male cutting, and yes, I do agree that in the example you give the procedures are similar. My issue is with people equating the type of male cutting typical in the US to the more extreme cutting practices in some parts of Africa, which is massively different. (If you would like a visual, in one instance the keloidal (scar) tissue from the infibulation was so tough the scapel actually broke when trying to slit the opening for the baby to be delivered.) I've seen this comparison come up repeatedly in the past few months, and I hope you can understand why I dislike it. Thank you.

• Whether a man is circumcised or not he needs to use a condom for protection from HIV infection. Condoms, not genital cutting, protect men and women from HIV.

• Whether a man is circumcised or not he needs to use a condom for protection from HIV infection. Male Circumcision – A Dangerous Mistake in the HIV Battle http://www.intactamerica.org/dangerousmistake

• Last year the American Academy of Pediatrics proposed allowing doctors to make a small incision in the genitals of a girl if her parents requested it for cultural or religious reasons. That is the type of female genital cutting Muslim parents do to their daughters in Indonesia and Malaysia. A small incision is less damaging than male circumcision, however there was a public outcry and the AAP repealed its new policy. All children, both boys and girls, have a right to grow to adulthood with all the normal parts they were born with.

• Who is going to enforce it?  How about, what doctor is going to perform a circumcision with the specter of legal consequences?  What hospital would allow circumcisions were the law enacted?  What an absurd argument.  Leave little boys' penises alone.

• I don't have strong opinions on this measure, mostly because I'm not a guy, but I do get really irritated when activists compare male genital cutting to what happens to women in Eastern Africa. I worked three years in reproductive health in northern Kenya where a number of refugees practiced the extreme infibulation with excision cutting, and assisting in childbirth for an infibulated woman has to be one of the most difficult experiences I've had (to say nothing of the women giving birth). Like I said, I don't have a set stance on the measure, but I do wish some of the activists would show some respect with a bit of perspective.

• Circumcision campaign in Africa reduces HIV infections 76%, study finds By Thomas H. Maugh II Los Angeles Times July 21, 2011 A circumcision campaign in a South African township cut new HIV infections among the treated men by 76%, researchers reported Wednesday. The simple operation provides a way to make major inroads in the HIV transmission rate in countries where the infection rate is very high, researchers said, and provides a cost-effective way to slow the pandemic. Clinical trials have shown that circumcision can reduce HIV infection, but the new results presented at a Rome conference of the International AIDS Society show the benefits in actual practice. Using funds provided by international donors, physicians offered free circumcisions to all men over the age of 15 in the South African township of Orange Farm, which has a population of about 110,000. About 20,000 men participated in the program between 2007 and 2010, increasing the proportion of circumcised males in the township from 16% to 50%. Among men 15 to 24, the proportion circumcised reached 59%. Dr. Bertran Auvert, a professor of public health at the University of Versailles in France, and his colleagues studied about 1,200 men in the township in 2007 and a similar number in 2010. They found an average of 2.86 HIV infections per 100 uncircumcised men, compared with 0.42 per 100 in men who had undergone the procedure. After statistical adjustment, that worked out to a 76% reduction in infections. There is no evidence that the circumcised men were more likely to use condoms or otherwise change their behavior. The team is now looking to see if the procedure benefited women as well. It is not completely clear why circumcision is so beneficial. Some studies have shown, however, that the folds of the uncircumcised tip provide a pocket for viruses and bacteria to grow. The foreskin is also known to have high concentrations of the cells that are infected by HIV. Other African countries are also scaling up circumcision efforts. Kenya has circumcised nearly 290,000 men in the past three years, primarily in the province of Nyanza, according to the World Health Organization. The government of Tanzania has announced plans to circumcise at least 2.8 million men over the next five years. A rapid results campaign in early 2011 yielded 10,000 procedures. Swaziland, which has the highest HIV prevalence rate in the world, plans to circumcise 152,800 men. A statement released by the U.S. embassy in Swaziland estimated that the circumcision plan there could prevent nearly 90,000 new infections and save more than $600 million over the next decade. Each circumcision in South Africa cost about $108, said Dirk Taljaard of Progressus Research and Development Consultancy in Johannesburg, one of the study authors. He estimated that circumcising five men would prevent one new HIV infection in the next year and that every dollar spent on the procedure would save about $15 that would have later been spent on treatment.

• Ma is against a ban on male genital mutilation because it cannot be enforced, so using her logic I would imagine there is no way to enforce female genital mutilation, either. According to Ma, "cities really do not have those kind of resources" that would protect newborn infants from unnecessary cosmetic surgery or outright mutilation. It's sad, really.

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